Nevertheless, cut-back artillery Luger holsters are inexplicably associated with the new police cleaning rods and appears self-evident that possibly, some of the new design police cleaning rods with brass stops were carried in the attached cleaning rod pouches of the converted LP.08 artillery to police holsters, and they also could be found in police stations. Pictured is a black dyed 1933 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with a Weimar era (1929-36) Sunburst police inspection stamp and P08 pistol issue number S.E.I. He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently. this is somewhat supported as many pictures exist of Weimar Police with ordinary belt buckles. This is division marked WW3009=Wilhelmshaven Dockyard gun #3009 on the back strap. Post WW2 police manual, dated 1946, is titled The Police Pistols, Dresden, part of the Soviet Occupation Zone, identified of the cover as part of the State of Saxony. The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in ad[5]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/wittmann.jpg'; installed over the barrel sight block blade assembly as a single unit with the German Army. The kit is decidedly different in construction and contents from the official Reinigungsgert 34 & R.G.34 fr Kal. [2], The earliest dated new manufacture, second pattern regulation police holster is 1929. What am I missing here? back-side attached single, horizontal leather stock block strip and removing the center block. Approximately 5 produced (2 originals known), not numbered. You might remember that I was looking for the destination of 2,760 Luger pistols; having 98mm - 7.65mm barrels that came from Berlin to Oberndorf. When is the right time to sell back 9780985833503 Police Lugers: German Police Lugers and Their Markings 1918-1958? and - S. H. 133. are hidden, being located under the cover flap, whereas other identified, non-holster Hannover markings, such as Police P08s are prominently marked. ad[9]='http://www.germandaggers.com/banners/Cash3.jpg'; The base forms of the unit marks for this police force are contained in This Police holster definitely was used in two different locations or districts as indicated by the S. Hn. Police Lugers: German Police Lugers & their markings, 1918-1958 by Tinker. Interestingly, that is maybe why the upper brass stud was added to the subject cut-back unidentified maker Artillery holster, simply to allow the cleaning rod cover flap to close over the cleaning rod handle, as the cover flap secured to the lower brass stud is clearly stressed, even without an inserted cleaning rod and definitely could not close with an inserted cleaning rod. Since these cut back LP08 holsters, at least in the Weimar era, had no provision for a spare magazine, the police officer carries a twin magazine pouch on his belt. It was initially issued to the Imperial German Army during WW1, was reworked by the police, and was issued to the Nazi police force during WW2. However, in 1941, Fraktur was banned in a Schrifterlass (edict on script) signed by Martin Bormann as so-called Schwabacher Judenlettern ("Schwabacher Jewish letters"). edge of the barrel sight band/block. 1929 police luger markings on side plate and back of frame User Name: Remember Me? document.write(''). A community dedicated to Lugers, Central Powers, Axis, Allied and related WW-I and WW-II pistols by their scholars, collectors, owners and enthusiasts. Bild (picture) 102-00327A Foto: o .Ang. This example has all matching serial numbers. Item Information. 19-130 text caption picturing a cut-back LP.08 holster: that the converted LP.08 artillery holsters were not reconverted by the decree of August 1928 and so retaining the LP.08 cleaning rod pocket (pouch), modified by addition of a wider top section and second stud to accommodate the long Police cleaning rod with soldered on travel stop. The conclusion being that there are a variety of styles/shapes and size of brass studs used by the many different WW1 leather makers of LP08 Artillery holsters and as such, it is difficult to dismiss any of these original period brass studs as aftermarket, not German or not used with Artillery holsters. It is possible the second conversion was even later, around the start of WW2, and if true would Thanks for the help. Original stitching intact. Based on the year 1924 the holster is most likely brown. institute for technology and transport. All P-08 Military Lugers. And when new information comes out, sometimes "old" information is shown to be wrong. ----------------------------------------------------------- page 5 ----------------------------------------------------------. License and control of businesses; street lighting; control and upkeep of road surfaces; night watchmen; wells & water conduits; fire fighting; street begging; public health; passport, registration, and aliens' affairs; the Theater Police; the Market Police; servants office; embezzlement; control of gambling; the Morals Police; trade affairs; issue of hunting licenses; control of mentally ill and insane, and facilities for them; supervision of trucking matters; construction matters; and . Pictured for comparison are two different examples of Artillery holster cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass studs with demonstrably different shapes and sizes or dimensions. HIPO as well as Gestapo had their informers. issued to a unit; e.g., the 351st P08 pistol issued to the Schutzpolizei Any aluminium based or black plastic based magazine (without serial number) would be correct for this gun. by von thoma 07 May 2016, 02:26, Post Regimental markings on a 1916 P08 Luger - Arms and other weapons - The Great War (1914-1918) Forum. 113-114 - A combination of new information and reconsideration leads me to believe that the Type 3 markings S.D.I, II, III, IV and VI represented the large Schupo commands in Essen, Wuppertal, Dsseldorf, Duisburg-Hamborn and Oberhausen, respectively. 13005 or Schutzpolizei Berlin property number stamping located on the holster rear, to the right of the belt loops, with the Hannover and Berlin districts being 283 kilometers apart. Additionally, based on Thread Tools: Display Modes The magazine safety is intact, the grips screws haven't been tampered with and overall looks like a pretty decent pistol. Most of them are out of date: on the other hand, so many regulations have been added recently that it would be difficult for the novice to find out the right thing. The thumb safety is marked "Gesichert" and when exposed (1096) NOTE: Photographs taken today Pictured is a brown leather example with regulation holster body attached holster body spare magazine pouch with up-strap and cover flap keeper slit and steel stud closure. Please help me with identifying those markings. The magazine has a non matching serial number. This book contains English translations of the actual regulations issued by the German authorities from the Imperial and Weimar eras, and is an invaluable source of information about the often obscure markings found on German weapons and equipment until 1937 3. eBay Auction, 1933 Paul Goldner Halle a. S. holster, Sturgess collection, currently, as of this writing, being offered by a noted dealer for an equally extremely rare four-digit price. Pictured above are two books, Band I or Volume I introduced sometime in the late 1920s, and later in the early 1930s, many being police acceptance marked on the shaft. Note that the first photo posted by Ron has the same missing corner. Einwohnerwehr had a membership of hundreds of thousands and was The original brown leather holster was probably dyed/swabbed black, at this time, to conform to regulations. 19-130. Also, the same holster is pictured with a 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger. Translated cover of The Police Pistols, Dresden manual. Einwohnerwehr marked E W B on pistol grips and rifle butts. Most observed are reworks with double date or blank chambers of DWM and ERFURT.(shown below) The eagle proof differs from recognized Police Luger eagle stamped holsters, which are usually not associated with E/WaA control numbers. (communications maintenance squadron), Kraftfahrabteilung Simson proofs. I have several lugers and Broomhandles with the "HZaJt18" marking on them. However, no Police bayonets, in general, were issue items, so they would be more "service" items, rather than dress. It might be that a few H.P. On the grip strap there are the markings L.Me.284. 1920. According to the Standard Catalog of Luger by Davis the meaning of this marking is unknown. II. by Igorak89 09 May 2016, 18:58, Post Der Polizeibeamte seiht sich daher den vielseitigen Uusgaben gegenberstehen. An examination of the P. Braunleder Cln cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass stud shows a completely different shape of style and size of either of the two different lower and upper brass stud shapes of the subject cut-back Artillery to Police holster. From the same time period is this beautiful DWM Swiss contract Model 1906 Luger sold on the commercial market in 1920s, and includes a vintage shooting medal from the Moudon, a historic town in the canton of Vaud in Switzerland. Still. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Regarding the use of the police cleaning rod in the field it can be used without the barrel affixed Mndungsschoner or muzzle protector. allow citizens to protect themselves from looters, armed gangs, and Apparently, as to whether to modify the cleaning rod pouch/sleeve and or cover flap of a cut-back Artillery to Police holster to accommodate a Police cleaning rod is necessary, all depends on the availability multiple makers of used and unused WW1 Artillery holsters to different Artillery holster leather makers in 1920s Germany that were available to a host of leather craftsmen to be refurbished for Police use. And in closing, a little German Police marching music Hoch Deutschland Marsch Hermann Richter Grosses Blas-Orchester der Schutzpolizei Berlin. Best, Pat He who lives by the sword, should train with it frequently. Description. Here are the rare Lugers (PHOTOS). Below are some other HZa manufactured holsters and Ingolstadt marked parts. Only two are identified in publications and only partial pictures. Without delay, lets get into the coolest of the bunch: DWM Model 1900 7.65mm Ejercito Mexicano marked commercial pistol made in hopes of gaining contracts with the Mexican military. Boasting classy lines, a well-recognized pedigree, and great ergos for a small all-steel gun, Smith & Wessons take on the Walther PPK/s aimed to revive an old carry king in the increasingly polymer-focused concealed carry market. Most of them are out of date: on the other hand, so many regulations have been added recently that it would be difficult for the novice to find out the right thing. Since this ammo is rare, it is considered to be collectible ammunition. Pictured are two 1933 Robert Larsen Police holsters with and without the E/Mg10 eagle and multiple views of the subject Police holster, being view 1, view 2, view 3 and view 4. Regarding the S. H.133. Pictured is a brown leather 1937 dated Robert Larsen Berlin police holster with an eagle over circled B Nazi Swastika police inspection stamp; view 1 and view 2. Apparently, there are other, period German Police Luger wooden box cleaning kits, another example being REINIGUNGSGERTFR PISTOLE = POLIZEI BADEN = although it is not clear as to the date of manufacture is pre or post 1945 as the state of Baden existed prior to 1945 and it wasnt until 1946 that the state of Wurternberg-Baden was formed. It will therefore be easy for all police officers who are familiar with the content of the book to find their way through the reworking without difficulty. This is exactly what I believe happened to this holster. It is uncertain how long the holster remained in the pre-1928 first conversion, shortened LP.08 police pattern as the balance of the changes that constitute the second conversion are unique to this holster, starting with the removal of the up-strap, cover flap keeper and brass stud, plugging the cover flap stud anchor hole, and replacing the original artillery up-strap with a non-standard for a police holster, originally black paint/enamel coated metal belt buckle, keeper and strap cover flap closure. Is wird daher fr alle Polizeibeamten, die mit dem Inhalt des Buches vertraut sind, ein leichtes sein, sich auch in der vorliegenden Reubearbeitung ohne Schwierigteit zurechtzusinden. By the 19th century, disputes over the use of Fraktur or Antigua typeface became more heated and lasted until the middle of the 20th century. Geit dem Frscheinen der ersten Uuslage im Febraur d. Zs. With his permission, I have posted it below. Pictured is a similar aftermarket P08 and police stick-wing acceptance stamped muzzle protector disassembled. Click here for English translation. Also, recently in Strafrecht (Criminal Law) z. L. significant upheavals took place. It was procured from private stockWhat real difference would it make to the Heers WaA if they ordered a new holster or procured one from existing stock? another cut-back Artillery to Police holster, An examination of the P. Braunleder Cln cleaning rod pouch/sleeve brass stud shows a completely different shape of style and size, of the two different lower and upper brass stud shapes of the subject cut-back Artillery to Police holster. The 1920 dated and double dated rework Lugers (DWM and Erfurt) are in the "Lugers - DWM Commercial 1898-1929" Gallery. 1908/13 five-digit s/n commercial-military-police Luger. aware or familiar with that accessory, which is understandable, as TBLAP My question, please forive if its too absurd, is" Why weren't the Riff Contract pistols ordered from the Simson Co.?" Brief explanation of the Danish HIPO-organization (as the name is mentioned again and again): HIPO was a Danish corps, established 1944 by the German Gestapo, recruited among Danish traitors after, most of the Danish policemen on September 19th 1944 were arrested and sent to concentration camps in Germany. the center Police officer with a white colored belt. As a result, the holster is about of an inch longer than the typically encountered cut-back artillery holster with a toe plug. May the second application of every police officer continue to be a good leader in the difficult area of police action. Box 7184, rotating clockwise the short collar section, about 270 degrees by 1) rotating the threaded, knurled The holster, shown with pistol, is unusual as it was made without a loading tool pouch under the cover flap and the cover flap lacks a keeper for the holster body attached closing strap. Specifically, the reason, thought to be for the exact length of the cleaning rod shaft from the tip to the brass stop of 135mm when inserted through the 4-inch barrel installed muzzle protector, extending though the barrel, is meant to end flush to the chamber face. By signing up you agree to Guns.com's The fourth is a very early 3-digit, circa 1930 production DWM/Mauser commercial/Police Luger serial number 873V. During the last war-winter, its members were the worse terrorists of all against their Danish countrymen. The weirdest part is the stamp on the inside back panel. steel rod with brass muzzle stop for 4-inch barrel P.08 Luger pistols with Luger Extractor Marks Luger Safety Marks Luger Magazine Marks Light sheet steel body with crimped edges. Per C. Kenyon in Lugers at Random, 1969, Section 8, page 250 GENERAL NOTES states that: very few of these early DWM/BKIW/Mauser Oberndorf assembled P.08s were made and very few of this variation are found with a Sear safety. FN Browning M1922 7.65 mm pistol, stamped, interestingly. It is also unlikely that any of the cut-back artillery holsters will be located with police markings as per TBLAP VIII, C19 page 1267 where it states: Modified army pattern holsters, whether of short LP.08 pattern originally, were not subject to formal inspection and marking upon conversion to the police pattern. Some of the Police guns are reported with DWM toggles; these do not appear in any recognizable pattern. The German state depended on the stabilizing The is a 9mm, all matching police luger. however, it is the opposite, since both variation 1 and variation 2 muzzle protectors have been aftermarket replicated. The first set of letters on the line indicate the military or police unit 1920-1933: DWM Lugers. On many Police Bayonets there are not only stamped numbers, but there were also letters proceeding the numbers that identified the city from where the bayonet was used during the Weimar period. We got our hands on one of the original MCXs for some testing. The Borchardt & Luger Automatic Pistols book publications picture and describe cut-back artillery Luger holsters as specifically modified for police Luger carry, there are no Luger book published, period pictures of German Police with a cut-back artillery Luger holster, nor with any standard, non-police P.08 type Luger holster. The Police holster rear is stamped with the P.08 pistol issue number or serial number 1021. The conventional wisdom is that these were manufactured in 1929. This 1920 commercial Luger was manufactured from a rebuilt WWI military pistol and sold through an Argentinian retailer, leaving it with both Buenos Aries and German markings. Even though the unidentified holster has been modified to fit a P.08, it is suggested by collectors that the Railway Protection Police mostly used non-Luger pistols. Although, looking like a post 1926 type 2 police holster, being stamped on the rear with a P.08 serial number 1108 located on the rear panel in the upper right corner, usually associated with police holsters, it has an army E/WaAJL16 stamping. Mauser or the Police HQ in Berlin? The added cover flap leather keeper strip is correctly attached with single line stitching. While the vast majority of Landjgerei-marked Lugers are 29 DWMs as noted, there is a small percentage of dated Imperial-era Lugers with these markings. [5] The S. M. 1074 markings are crossed-out with an X punch and re-stamped, positioned perpendicular at the forward gripstrap toe with an added Ostsee property number O.1057. Can anyone tell me what the Me. 02-04-2013 08:55 PM by NoncomRetired. The purpose of the added entrance leather section with a second brass stud to the cleaning rod pouch is therefore unclear, and without removing the original brass stud creates a second barrier to inserting the cleaning rod, however, there is no issue with the insertion of a navy, six ring wooden barrel handle, 5.5 m/m diameter cleaning rod without a brass stopper, as it completely seats, allowing the cover flap to close over the wooden barrel handle with no interference. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. and shipped to Mauser in the great move of 1930. The lack of relevant textbooks has often been put to the test. 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That these were manufactured in 1929 is police luger markings supported as many pictures of! The earliest dated new manufacture, second pattern regulation Police holster rear stamped! Foto: o.Ang Police guns are reported with DWM toggles ; these do not appear in any recognizable.! These were manufactured in 1929 on them the military or Police unit 1920-1933: DWM.. 09 May 2016, 18:58, Post der Polizeibeamte seiht sich daher den vielseitigen Uusgaben gegenberstehen: o.Ang put...