Basically any minor impact that causes the chain to bounce and tug at the chainring will result in noise. I think Shimano is taking these issues very seriously. Is this a review for ants? Shimano has put its long-running Steps E8000 format to pastor and heralds in its EP8 motor unit for 2021. With that said, all my riding is tough climbs and steep descents, without an e-bike would be walking up a bunch of it. The brand suggests EP8 owners should inspect their motors spindles for damage or cracks originating from the drilled hole used for the pedal crank retainer hook, located on the splined portion of the axle. Thus when I'm carrying a spare battery I can get up to 60 mile rides in, which e-bike or not, is still a hell of a day in the saddle. All the grit is gone because it's clearly stuck between your bitter little arse cheeks.. Pickup is faster too, with less hesitation between pedalling and torque being delivered to the rear tyre. These motors have Cadence sensors as well as torque sensors. Again, shift it down one notch at a time to get a feel for the change. e*thirteens analysis suggests that some Shimano EP8 spindles may have manufacturing defects which, over time, can develop into cracks with use and exposure to the elements, reads TSB 157. The way the 2.2 motor smooths out un-smooth rider input is very impressive, giving it the most natural feel on the trail of any full-power motor weve tested. I mean, one of the most beautiful things about the bicycle is how efficient and capable it is of traveling long distances under our own power. Under this condition, with each ride the crack can expand, and this can result in a spindle breakage.. On the trail the tone of the clack is a little deeper than the EP8 drive unit, but the cause is the same. Meanwhile, e*thirteens response places the ball firmly in Shimanos court. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. What Type of Mountain Bike Should You Buy in 2023? We haven't really got an opinion about durability. No, not at all. In fact, we found ourselves tuning it out completely a couple of rides later. The Bosch motor produces the same 85Nm peak torque output as Shimano EP8, and it offers a similarly drag-free ride quality beyond the 25km/h cutoff due to the motor decoupling from the cranks. The EP8s smooth power delivery is mirrored by its exceptionally low drag something that is totally noticeable (or rathernot noticeable) around the 25km/h cutoff point. Hopefully this option will open up to non-Garmin users in the future. IMO Shimano bikes are good,but they are 2 steps down compared to Specialized and Bosch. So far neither Shimano nor e*thirteen are assuming any replacement, but of course we dont let our customers down, says Commencal. The cause is due to the difference in design from Shimanos crank, which causes increased stress around the spindle hole.. "but since I have to hit the small button repeatedly when my battery charge becomes critical on some rides". We need to go deeper. Hitting those famous tracks day in, day out for eight years, he broke more bikes than he can remember. It's also a very quiet motor when pedalling. We suspect the amount of riding required to replicate this problem far exceeds the number of kilometres an average bike tester will do on any given model. Assistance Start Here you can tweak how quickly the motor responds within the first pedal stroke. Already have an account with us? I suppose pedal assist allows you to tackle the more fun/steep/tech climbs but to be effective it needs to be subtle too. The three EP8 bikes weve tested all have sub-440mm rear centre lengths, which is quite a bit shorter than the 471.5mm rear centre on the Giant Trance X E+ with its much bulkier Yamaha motor, for example. only one port which needs to be connected directly to the motor. Wait, 23-27kms? On my older gen Bosch motor with a 500wh battery I can get about 30 miles out of a battery charge if I only turbo up the steepest climbs and do the other bits in low/mid power settings (and I'm about 100kg's / 16 stone which sucks battery). Hes one of BikeRadars lead testers and knows how to push bikes and products to the limit, searching out the equipment that represents the best value for money. Did some rides on a scott e-genius 920(2020) and my biggest one I did was a 115 km with 2000 meters of ascent ,19 km average speed,all in the eco mode and riding some rocky terrain with some tarmac ,fire roads ,very mixed terrain ,and I did got impressed with the power and the range ,didnt got me so tired on the legs its most a cardio ,but dont put more power on them and no more battery capacity,cause it wil make them almost a dirt bike :-((. Make it 100 mile range, and I'm in. Power less, battery smaller, it lighter is.. Would "every time you push the on switch" have been more understandable? What settings you end up will depend on your personal riding style, and your expectations of range and power output. I wish real bike reviews were this detailed. The Pivot Shuttle, for example, employs a huge 726Wh battery made by a third party company called Darfon. That rattling feeling comes from one way bearing. Too hot to handle even. Also a big improvement over the prior motor is that the EP8 freewheels easily, so on flats or downhill you can blast away without motor resistance. Save 30% + G-Form Pro X3 Knee Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine. Our drive units are not tested for use with third party crank arms.. In addition to those weve tested, youll be able to find Shimano EP8 on the Santa Cruz Bullit & Heckler, Marin Alpine Trail E2, the Commencal Meta Power, YT Decoy,Pivot Shuttle and Mondraker Dusk. Quote Start New Topic Post a reply to: SHIMANO EP8 - won't turn on (new bike) As to how the de-tuned EP8 motor performs? With 21% greater torque than E8000, the EP8 motor delivers substantially more punch on the trail, and it feels more usable too. The actual mechanism works well but is very easy to break, just turn the allen key the wrong way by mistake..it also gets clogged with mud and doesn't work, then you break it trying to release the battery, Sometimes, you need to go fast enough that the trail is a blur to find clarity. Mkay? Recalled but still was delivered with the rattle. Its clear why this motor is becoming popular with so many bike brands, given the flexibility it offers frame designers, particularly with the variety of battery options on offer. Unfortunately this clutch also produces a metallic clack whenever it rotates back and fourth. e*thirteen is at the table with bike brands to find a mutually acceptable solution that first takes care of keeping people on their bikes. The maximum rider support was raised to 400%, compared to the E8000's 300%. I have a gen 3 and it's totally quiet when coasting . The belt-driven design is also a touch quieter when pedalling, and theres no clacking noise either. Ive only charged 2x. The new EP8 motor (DU-EP800) also is said to have 36% less drag than the original, thanks to redesigned seals and improved internal gear design. While I am at the age/account to have one, I couldn't imagine riding longer than my 630W battery lasted, i don't think i would be able to walk for a week. Shimano says it provides up to 350-percent support (in Boost mode versus the E8000's 300 percent). Certainly of all the full-power motors weve tested, Shimano EP8 affords the most seamless feel as the power fades in and out around the assistance cutoff. oooof! A kilometre later that estimation dropped to 14km, then not long after to 9km, then to 5km, before the motor automatically switched into emergency limp home mode. Its also given us plenty of opportunity to identify all the little quirks, while getting a better impression of long-term durability and performance. Stay tuned, as well have an Orbea Rise test bike arriving very soon. Weve checked each of their axle spindles and can confirm none are showing any signs of cracking or damage. Its worth noting that Bosch motor is only compatible with Bosch battery options though. You can display way more metrics on it too, and battery is usefully displayed as a percentage. I despise young people buying ebikeswhat a bunch of lazy. Thanks! I love the progression of Ebikes! You dont necessarily go further, but you will be riding and climbing faster. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. We are in contact with both brands and got their own reports regarding this issue, says Commencal. Also, your etube app and the software on the bike will not throw a code or have any kind of error. Sell it to me, bet ya cant specially at a respectable 90 keys. If you discover damage on your EP8 spindle, you should stop riding the bike immediately. Bikes sent in for testing are usually carefully prepared by brands to pick up any assembly issues, and then are checked before testing by in-house mechanics or the testers themselves. These findings are the result of an independently commissioned investigation by e*thirteen, after the brand became aware of reports that EP8 spindles were failing on bikes fitted with its ebike cranks. Their heckler had complete battery failure, the ship date for a new one is close to the motor ship date. Assistance Character This adjusts the motors support level, which is how easily the motor delivers its power based on your input. The most prominent reports of EP8 axle failure exist on two EMTB forum threads. Have had my Norco Range LVT with the EP8 for a week and have noticed the noise, maybe once? Pros - extremely quiet Cons - annoying rattling noisesums up 2020! I would have respected Shimano more if they owned it and were more forthright about working to resolve it. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. me-bikes: Ibis Exie, Ibis Ripley V4, Ibis Ripmo V2. I have not heard of a recall, so I did some digging. That makes it tricky to work out how much assistance youll be finishing your ride with. This BT-8036 battery only needs a 4mm hex key to be released from the frame for charging separately, which is unlike Bosch that requires a special key (potentially something else to lose/forget). But yeah, different people. 214 The DIODE has the Shimano E8000 motor and both bikes regardless of motor specs and differences do one thing really, really wellthey make riding FUN! So many issues that can be simply solved by not having a motor. I find the author of this article is overly picky. This occurs if the cap is not correctly tightened or the factory-fitted threadlock hasnt been adequately applied, and if the crank arms pinch bolts arent tightened to their correct torque. That's worse to, because 20kg dead weight doesn't contribute like 20kg of normal, muscle-laden body mass. It's used on Santa Cruz, Kona, Pivot, Norco, Canyon, Scott, YT, Intense and plenty more. 20ft into my ride and the motor cut out. Since working for MBUK, Alexs focus has moved to bike tech. I'm sure a dynamo can be integrated somehow with the hub rotations without causing a lot of drag. The metallurgic analysis was conducted to discover root cause. As in, we totally forgot about it altogether. Non-recommended 3rd party cranks can make a crack in the spindle because the difference in design from Shimanos crank causes increased stress around the spindle hole. I feel like I've been missing out on so much! Display integration is still the best on the market, even if it only shows five bars of battery level and could easily integrate some more user-friendly features. I think the only way it can get even close (And still doesn't) to that statement, is riding 25km on an analogue, or 50km on an ebike. Im the worlds biggest ebike fan & I quite agree. Der Shimano EP8 ist kleiner und leichter Nicht nur das Motorgehuse ist kleiner, auch das Innenleben des EP8 Motors. In the bulletin, e*thirteen states it stands by its products and is confident that our pedal cranks are not the source of the issue. Its the Orbea Rise that achieves the most discreet integration however, with a frame that was purpose-built around the smaller EP8 motor, rather than having been retrofitted from a previous E8000 drive unit. The lowest setting sees the motor responding slower to your pedalling inputs. The clicking sound has no effect on the function or durability of the drive unit. Weve noticed this while pedalling along forest double tracks and on the road to and from the trailhead, but its also apparent when sprinting along faster sections of singletrack. No mention on the worldwide recall of the motor due to issues? While the motor is both more sensitive and more powerful though, Shimano has done brilliantly to offer usable control of that power. Alex then moved back to the UK and put his vast knowledge of mountain biking to good use by landing a job working for MBUK magazine as features editor. I run the previous version steps e8000 and I think it's brilliant. Shimano also claims this issue is entirely isolated to non-Shimano cranks, stating it is aware of 49 reported cases of spindle failure. Purchased an SC Bullit in march and I now have 520 miles on it. Why don't you just make 10 be the top number and make that fully charged? Indeed Specialized actually built the new Levo around a mullet setup with a 27.5in rear wheel, in order to shorten the chainstays. Its easy to modulate via how much pressure youre putting through the cranks and the power delivery is progressive, giving it a very natural feel as a result. Just got my first 29er. I have ridden ebikes great fun,addictive, you gain some things , but lose some things as well, like all bikes a compromise. Furthermore, the range estimation is more accurate in our experience too. While there were limited options to tweak the levels of the old E8000 and E7000 motors, EP8 takes it to the next level, allowing riders to alter the motors torque, acceleration and general on-trail character, resulting in a more personalised experience for dialling your e-MTB in for your riding style and terrain. When the motor applies torque it pushes in one direction and closes the gap, when there is no torque the ring can rock a little. Its a little different though, with Orbea detuning the motors power and assistance to improve efficiency so it can use a smaller and lighter 360Wh battery. Why don't they buy dirtbikes instead ? Yes, we understand how and why spindle breakage may occur when some non-Shimano cranks are used with our DU-EP800 drive unit. quieter(+) smaller(+) lighter(+) more power(-) battery range(=). I read a similar story around christmas on an other forum. People know you're not running some old E8000 or E7000 motor. You are not alone. Wait until you see how much work it takes to replace rear derailleur housing! Wed much rather see battery life displayed as a percentage, and the option to customise the screen. Now, we're not going to be working on the actual. While the EP8s performance on the climbs is generally excellent, we have occasionally wished for a little more overrun for clearing technical features. Step 2 - Identify if preload caps have a pre-applied threadlocker patch and apply if necessary. Additionally, Shimano produces a smaller and lighter 504Wh option, which is also cheaper and helps to bring the complete bike price down see the sub-$8K Polygon Mt Bromo N8 for example. Oh man, so that must mean you know of rigs they've received that they've not done first rides and then field tests on. If you aren't climbing steeps and requiring the torque, you would get way longer distance. This reduced the tendency for the front wheel to lift on really steep tech climbs. And you're clearly not pedaling, just pure flow. It doesn't feel good. Hopefully we will have a system with little weight penalty in a few years. I think we lost grit when we all got smart phones. You can't call an e-bike rider lazy when they try to overtake you making this sound. Now, would we like to see Shimano eliminate the noise altogether? Shimano advises that only approved crank arms should be used with its DU-EP8 drive units, reads Shimanos statement. I've already posted this on the Commencal Meta SX Power thread, but wondered if other bikes with the Shimano EP8 motor and battery have seen a similar problem. And we certainly wouldnt be upset if Shimano could quieten down the clacking noise. Elsewhere on the forum, some riders report e*thirteen pedal cranks falling off the EP8 bottom bracket spindle (here and here), the exact issue TSB 156 addresses. He started racing downhill at the tender age of 11 before going on to compete across Europe. This speed may be enough, but some people may find it very frustrating because from 25 km/h they have to make a gigantic effort to follow their teammates since the assistance is cut off or simply because they want to go faster. In comparison, the MasterMind TCU display on the new Specialized Levo offers a significantly more customisable and overall user-friendly experience. Overall the tuning adjustments are quite noticeable, though wed always recommend only adjusting one parameter at a time to isolate its effect on the trail. What is Shimanos take on e*thirteens metallurgic analysis findings? For a lighter pedal feel than the E8000, the one-way bearing has reduced its rotational resistance, creating a free play. On top of that, you cant tune the Bosch motor like you can with EP8 theres no fancy app, and the stock assist settings arent adjustable what you see is what you get. What a misstep by Shimano to join Bosch in its failure. Along with the new EP8 motor, Shimano has also released a larger 630Wh battery, which seems to be the most popular option at the moment youll find it inside both the Canyon Spectral:ON and Merida eOne-Sixty. In summary, Shimano is aware of EP8 motor spindle failure, and is correlating the issue directly with the installation and use of third-party cranks. "- Only five power bars for charge level.". Weve found the first two settings to be too weak for e-MTB use, though conversely the highest setting can feel a little too peaky for some riders. These combinations meet our strict and exacting quality standards. Now I have $10k garage ornament that I can't ride for 3 months. This is part of our COMMENCAL Care program, we consider a warranty case should have no cost at all for any of our customers.. JavaScript is disabled. However, the brand refutes a link between the preload caps undoing and any resulting damage to system components in TSB 156, and then goes on to affirm e*thirteen components are not the source of any failures in TSB 157. However, where the Bosch Gen 4 feels like a diesel engine at low RPMs, the sporty EP8 drive unit still prefers spinning at a higher cadence. However, you do pay for all that refinement and integration. Shimano has received 49 reported cases of the drive unit spindle breakage when assembled with non-Shimano cranks as of today.. I tested a few Merida bikes with Shimano motor and they have some bugs in first versions,quite annoying stupid things force you to reset the bike sometimes. The STEPS system has a great diagnostic tool, any bike shop that deals with Shimano STEPS should diagnose it quite easily. A bit like chain slap when you don't apply force on the pedals. Hey Ralf Hauser!! They need to get their old skunk works team back together and gain real world feedback before promoting vaporware. Only the Levos belt-driven Brose drive unit beats EP8 in terms of motor noise. Shimanos answers to our questions are published below verbatim. Aim for a cadence between 70-90 RPM for maximum efficiency and response from the motor. The new motor, called EP8, is 10 percent smaller and is a lot lighter. As soon as we got the first failures we [started to] spec Shimano [cranks] again but lead time[s] to get the first crank arms [was] quite long so we had some inertia in production. Mile range, and the option to customise the screen cases of the motor is only compatible with Bosch options. Than he can remember E8000 and i now have 520 miles on it,..., he broke more bikes than he can remember Pads when you subscribe to MBUK magazine battery options.. Without causing a lot of drag response from the motor delivers its power on... 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